1 fair to say?

2 A Yes, sir. It is -- they're are e-mails and

3 they show me speaking to Mr. Damson the way I spoke with

4 probably nearly all my investors with the exception of

5 Mr. Von Allmen.

6 Q For example?

7 A I had relationships like this even far more

8 in-depth and far more familiar with many of my

9 investors.

10 Q For example, you were talking about a lobster

11 party on page one of the document.

12 A No, I'm not talking about that, I think Barry

13 is.

14 Q Okay. He's communicating with you about a

15 lobster party. What does that have to do with the

16 investment? What does that have to do with the

17 investment?

18 A Lobster specifically?

19 Q Or that communication.

20 A Do you want to know what it says or do you want

21 to know what I think it says?

22 Q What do you think it says?

23 A I think it's more of Barry trying to work me.

24 I think he's trying to be nice to me. I think he wants

25 to ultimately - I think he believed in the deals. I

Page 1889

1 think he believed that he had a good investment. He was

2 very, very motivated by money, okay, he didn't become

3 wealthy by accident. And I think that he wanted to draw

4 me into his crowd to make me feel like I was part of his

5 crowd so that he could secure as good a position in my

6 investment group as he possibly could.

7 Q He wanted to curry your favor so that you would

8 give him more deals, right?

9 A I think he wanted to be as close to me as he

10 possibly could in order to increase his ability to get

11 deals, yes.

12 Q The next e-mail, the July 15th e-mail purports

13 to be some sort of a joke; is that right?

14 A I don't know what this is.

15 Q You don't recall what the Italian Christmas

16 present was?

17 A No.

18 Q Do you recall sending him a video or, I'm

19 sorry, a voicemail of some sort that you forwarded?

20 A I think this looks like him sending it to me.

21 Q I misspoke. Did Mr. Damson sent to you?

22 A It's certainly possible.

23 Q Do you recall what it was?

24 A I don't recall off the top of my head.

25 Q Now, I'd like you to go towards the back of

Page 1890

1 that document, let's sort of look at some of the other

2 language in there. There's that Rothschild language

3 again; is that right?

4 A Yes, we referred to each other as Rocky and

5 Rothschild, Dr. Rothstein, Dr. Damson, that type of

6 thing, yes.

7 Q Was that to convey that sort of that you were

8 both purportedly very rich and wealthy, well-to-do

9 people?

10 A Yes, I think that was the joke.

11 Q He writes to you that, on Exhibit 000030, that

12 you can see Jerome Avenue from my deck, right?

13 A I wrote that or he wrote that? He wrote that.

14 Q He wrote that?

15 A Yes.

16 Q You used to live on Jerome Avenue in the Bronx?

17 A No, I used to live in the Bronx but I know

18 where Jerome Avenue is.

19 Q What period were you in the Bronx?

20 A Until 1976.

21 Q Now, on the next page, last two pages of the

22 document, that purports to refer to a deal, does it

23 not? Look at the last page.

24 A The last page where I'm getting an e-mail from

25 Pricila saying Barry is going to pick me up?

Page 1891

1 Q The last page where it says -- I'm sorry, one

2 page in.

3 A Okay. Let me take a look.

4 Q The deal is as follows: 15 million, ROI 7

5 million?

6 A Yes, I see all that.

7 Q Can you explain what the deal was here?

8 A I'm explaining what the deal is, yes.

9 Q This is basically - if I can ask you to clarify

10 it - you're offering him a deal to pay $15 million for a

11 $22 million settlement; is that right?

12 A Correct.

13 Q And it would be payable in three payments; is

14 that right?

15 A Yes, sir.

16 Q And within 75 days he would receive a profit of

17 7 million; is that right?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And then you write - could you read out loud

20 the last two sentences?

21 A He and his partners.

22 Q Okay. And then it says: Nicely done. Can you

23 read the next section?

24 A It says: Nicely done, Rockefella with a lot of

25 a's and a smiley face. Nicely done Rothschild as well.

Page 1892

1 Complimenting myself. Always test your liquids before

2 drinking. And it says hehehehehe.

3 Q Why did you write that?

4 A He used to -- He and I used to joke around

5 about the fact that someone might try to poison me.

6 Q Someone might try to poison you?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Who would do that?

9 A That they would want to kill the goose that

10 laid the golden egg. I don't know. It was a joke.

11 Q On the previous page you also write on August

12 17, you say: Money never sleeps?

13 A Yeah, I said that to a lot of people. I used

14 to say that to Szafranski. I said that to a lot of

15 people.

16 Q What did that mean?

17 A It was a referral back to a movie called Wall

18 Street where Gordon Gekko said, Money never sleeps.

19 He's talking to Bud, he said, Money never sleeps. He

20 was speaking to the character Bud.

21 Q You were picking up the language from the

22 character Gordon Gekko, right?

23 A Yes.

24 Q We've heard a little bit about Michael

25 Szafranski and could you explain what Szafranski's job

Page 1893

1 was supposed to be. Let's first focus on the Funds.

2 What was Mr. Szafranski supposed to do with the Funds?

3 A He was supposed to be an independent third

4 party verifier verifying the actual existence of the

5 deals.

6 Q And what right would give Mr. Szafranski under

7 the terms of your deal, the right to look at any of the

8 deal documents?

9 A I don't think I understand your question.

10 Q Well, let's go back. You said he's an

11 independent verifier, what was he supposed to verify?

12 A He was supposed to verify the signatures on the

13 deals, the plaintiff, the defendant, he was supposed to

14 verify the wires in and out, balances in accounts. And

15 as I testified over the last several days, there were

16 other occasions where he was asked to do additional due

17 diligence type things like trying to match plaintiffs

18 and defendants, that type of stuff, listen in on

19 negotiations.

20 Q My question to you is, what right - if you're

21 representing a client, what right did Mr. Szafranski

22 have to be involved in any communication between you and

23 your client?

24 A The way we drafted the agreements we believed

25 we were drafting them in a nebulous enough fashion so as

Page 1894

1 to allow for an independent verifier to verify the

2 existence of the deals. When someone inquired about it

3 we tied it through the financial advisor type role that

4 we placed in the agreements as well as just creating

5 language as we went on saying that the parties involved,

6 excuse me, the plaintiff, which would have been the only

7 party knowing about this particular sale, had no problem

8 with it and that we had the independent third party

9 person locked into confidentiality, that wasn't going to

10 be a problem.

11 No one voiced any objection to it. The only

12 person that ever voiced an objection to an independent

13 third party verifier was me.

14 Q Well, Miss Evans is going to go over the deals

15 in more specificity. But wasn't the financial advisor

16 who was allowed to talk to the plaintiff about the

17 financial terms of the settlement, but they were not

18 allowed to look at the documents; isn't that true?

19 A Without seeing a document I couldn't tell you

20 from the top of my head.

21 Q But it's your testimony that Mr. Szafranski was

22 supposed to see unredacted versions of the documents?

23 A That's what we all agreed to.

24 Q How would that help anybody who was trying to

25 buy one of the settlements?

Page 1895

1 A He was to verify that this was real.

2 Q Did he ever see somebody signing an agreement?

3 A No, sir.

4 Q Did he ever verify any of the companies that

5 were settling were real?

6 A He lied about doing that but he didn't really

7 do it because the only companies that were real were the

8 major companies whose names we used at the very end, the

9 last several months of the Ponzi scheme.

10 Q Would you explain what you meant by

11 Mr. Szafranski lied about the verifications?

12 A No, I said he lied about verifying the

13 existence of the defendants.

14 Q Who did he lie to?

15 A Actually, as I testified earlier, he actually,

16 as the Ponzi scheme went on lied about the entire

17 verification process once he knew there was no real

18 plaintiffs and defendants.